Just wanted to say that I’ve read a few articles here and there on Substack (as in Alex Berenson’s reporting on Covid), but I was so curious about this Klavan v/& Klavan venture that I had to come on over and subscribe. I am a DW subscriber too but I do get tired of the superficiality of a lot of the headlines/essays and long for something deeper.
Paul David Tripp has an excellent book entitled “Do You Believe?” which describes 12 doctrines of Christian faith. I highly recommend it.
Born in '59 and raised in the christian ghettos pocketed around Columbus, Ohio (I lived within 20 minutes of Kent State and never knew about the riots there) I spent my childhood welded to the soggy pews of (mostly) Assemblies of God churches where pulpits, pounderd by earnest expounders of a pre-trib eschatology filled my boyish imagination with the certain dread of a late, great planet earth and the imminent rapture of the true believers. Now, here I am, looking forward to touring the New Jerusalem with all y'all. Life is good 'cause God is good.
Super excited to be here! I started listening to DW about a yr ago and found Andrew Klavan- now my fave DW person. I read Andrew’s memoir and fell in love with his story. I read his other book, the Truth in Beauty, do not know poetry but loved the history and culmination of how Andrew understood Jesus through it. Then the amazing 3 new books, Cam Winter series 🫶🏻! I’m a new follower of Spencer on Insta who is actually too smart for me 🤪 but the voice gets me 🫠.
It was the other way around for me. After becoming aware of Andrew Klavan, I started listening to Daily Wire. Drew is at the top of my list of those who inform and delight me in my faith. He has pointed me to many great gems of wisdom expressed through art and western culture. Iron sharpens iron. Drew and others at DW have sharpened my abilities to see and think and speak.
One if my favorite Klavan statements was about the goal being “to learn calm, to learn courage, to learn joy.” This conversation between Andrew and Spencer is already engaging and promising.
My Judeo/Christianity began in winter, 1970. A mystical draw dragged me into a revival. The first night was a wash. The second night I began to "see" the presence of Jesus and "hear" Yeshua teach me by filling my mind with "I love you without conditions. I don't hold your wickedness against you. Be my friend." That night I knelt in my room and said, "I don't understand but I want you as my friend and I'll give up everything for it," or something along that line.
Fifty three years later my knowledge of God begins and ends with gratitude for being loved unconditionally by the Creator of the Universe. There are only a few essential things I've learned besides that. The first is that I am a copy of the creator God; in other words, I express the attributes of personhood like the Creator. That God is the Creator and Man is his image, is the beginning of Biblical understanding.
“Do you realize how magnificently you are loved by this man? By this man who knows you better than you know yourself? By this Person who loves you so much that He would rather die than live without you?”
I joined DW a little over two years ago when I became aware of you (Klavan senior) and your delightfully sarcastic intros and even better comments on the culture. I soon realized that I had found a brother in Christ who could help me grow in the Faith. As anyone who has been a Believer for a while has probably realized, we all need each other to stay sharp (as scripture - and Blair Chisum Erwin - says “iron sharpens iron”). That’s what you and what your son, Spencer, no relation, have increasingly done for me. I so look forward to more of your letters and essays. Grace and peace.
Please, do, share! What a generous thing, to include us in your conversation; and what a rare privilege to read some honest thought, unvarnished truth, uncommon struggle toward discernment. I am convinced that the timing of this is God-ordained.
Were it not an alcoholic drink, I would argue that someone who'd order a Jerusalem and Athens *must* be pregnant—because that's the only way wine + whiskey would remotely sound palatable.
Loved the first installment of this new venture! I'm a fan of the Klavan clan, sister included.
The connection between increasing orthodox beliefs and the immediate shift into getting others to believe or convert to it is interesting. I have experienced it in all Christian denominations. I have a very Catholic "New York" mom who goes through valiant attempts to convert me, protestant/evangelical upbringing myself. I joke with her that some of my ancestors were Waldencians, described by some histories as proto-protestants, "I go WAY BACK". But then on my side it seems that many have an instinctive reaction to differentiate from the Catholics that it shades any theological discussion. I do have my theological positions but your (Andrew) approach, God can speak to each of us in various ways is very true I think. I recently heard Michael Ward say we should "not mistake our knowledge for the thing known"
I hope Drew and Spencer can help me with one thing: I’m an old academic with a scholarly mindset. My tendency is to overthink and to break things down into their constituent parts. Left-brain dominance (cf. Iain McGilchrist). Nuance. Dostoevsky‘s character Shatov says he “wants” to believe. I get that. Like Jordan Peterson might say, I try to live in the world “as if” God exists. The hardest thing for me personally is that I can sense a higher intelligence, but I am not able to FEEL the incarnation of Jesus Christ. So that’s where I’m starting. Hoping this discussion will help.
Your thoughts very much eco my own. My own issue is reconciling the issue of "if god is good why" Having worked 30 years in ER I have some big "why's" that I am not able to just put aside however much I might wish I could.
Time is short, and my free-time shorter, but I will definitely find time for this discussion group. Andrew is a favorite author of mine and I look forward to reading their conversations.
I’m grateful for you Klavans. God is using your words and work for my growth so that I can better serve Him and neighbor. May His spirit continue to guide you and increase your joy and peace.
It’s possible to know the Lord is real and yet to rebel or reject Him as do Satan and demons who also seek to enlist humans in the rebellion through deceptions, accusations, doubts, and distrust. There are the lies that we humans can be as God or that We cannot trust in the goodness of God or rely on His promises. “Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven.”
It is baffling to wonder whether or how persons could still choose to reject or rebel were they ever fully able to recognize the sheer goodness of God in all his complete mercy and justice, truth and grace, and in His relentless quest to redeem and restore us while we are His enemies.
Just wanted to say that I’ve read a few articles here and there on Substack (as in Alex Berenson’s reporting on Covid), but I was so curious about this Klavan v/& Klavan venture that I had to come on over and subscribe. I am a DW subscriber too but I do get tired of the superficiality of a lot of the headlines/essays and long for something deeper.
Paul David Tripp has an excellent book entitled “Do You Believe?” which describes 12 doctrines of Christian faith. I highly recommend it.
Thank you - I hope this group becomes a place where we find beautiful gems of knowlege and books.
Born in '59 and raised in the christian ghettos pocketed around Columbus, Ohio (I lived within 20 minutes of Kent State and never knew about the riots there) I spent my childhood welded to the soggy pews of (mostly) Assemblies of God churches where pulpits, pounderd by earnest expounders of a pre-trib eschatology filled my boyish imagination with the certain dread of a late, great planet earth and the imminent rapture of the true believers. Now, here I am, looking forward to touring the New Jerusalem with all y'all. Life is good 'cause God is good.
I bleed A/G 😂
Super excited to be here! I started listening to DW about a yr ago and found Andrew Klavan- now my fave DW person. I read Andrew’s memoir and fell in love with his story. I read his other book, the Truth in Beauty, do not know poetry but loved the history and culmination of how Andrew understood Jesus through it. Then the amazing 3 new books, Cam Winter series 🫶🏻! I’m a new follower of Spencer on Insta who is actually too smart for me 🤪 but the voice gets me 🫠.
The 2 together- intriguing! Can’t wait!
It was the other way around for me. After becoming aware of Andrew Klavan, I started listening to Daily Wire. Drew is at the top of my list of those who inform and delight me in my faith. He has pointed me to many great gems of wisdom expressed through art and western culture. Iron sharpens iron. Drew and others at DW have sharpened my abilities to see and think and speak.
One if my favorite Klavan statements was about the goal being “to learn calm, to learn courage, to learn joy.” This conversation between Andrew and Spencer is already engaging and promising.
Inform and delight are good descriptions!
My Judeo/Christianity began in winter, 1970. A mystical draw dragged me into a revival. The first night was a wash. The second night I began to "see" the presence of Jesus and "hear" Yeshua teach me by filling my mind with "I love you without conditions. I don't hold your wickedness against you. Be my friend." That night I knelt in my room and said, "I don't understand but I want you as my friend and I'll give up everything for it," or something along that line.
Fifty three years later my knowledge of God begins and ends with gratitude for being loved unconditionally by the Creator of the Universe. There are only a few essential things I've learned besides that. The first is that I am a copy of the creator God; in other words, I express the attributes of personhood like the Creator. That God is the Creator and Man is his image, is the beginning of Biblical understanding.
I write and publish fiction on my substack.
https://tiogam.substack.com
https://tiogam.com
“He sees you with His soul.”
“Do you realize how magnificently you are loved by this man? By this man who knows you better than you know yourself? By this Person who loves you so much that He would rather die than live without you?”
Michael Card Music
Mike Card
I joined DW a little over two years ago when I became aware of you (Klavan senior) and your delightfully sarcastic intros and even better comments on the culture. I soon realized that I had found a brother in Christ who could help me grow in the Faith. As anyone who has been a Believer for a while has probably realized, we all need each other to stay sharp (as scripture - and Blair Chisum Erwin - says “iron sharpens iron”). That’s what you and what your son, Spencer, no relation, have increasingly done for me. I so look forward to more of your letters and essays. Grace and peace.
Please, do, share! What a generous thing, to include us in your conversation; and what a rare privilege to read some honest thought, unvarnished truth, uncommon struggle toward discernment. I am convinced that the timing of this is God-ordained.
Were it not an alcoholic drink, I would argue that someone who'd order a Jerusalem and Athens *must* be pregnant—because that's the only way wine + whiskey would remotely sound palatable.
Loved the first installment of this new venture! I'm a fan of the Klavan clan, sister included.
The connection between increasing orthodox beliefs and the immediate shift into getting others to believe or convert to it is interesting. I have experienced it in all Christian denominations. I have a very Catholic "New York" mom who goes through valiant attempts to convert me, protestant/evangelical upbringing myself. I joke with her that some of my ancestors were Waldencians, described by some histories as proto-protestants, "I go WAY BACK". But then on my side it seems that many have an instinctive reaction to differentiate from the Catholics that it shades any theological discussion. I do have my theological positions but your (Andrew) approach, God can speak to each of us in various ways is very true I think. I recently heard Michael Ward say we should "not mistake our knowledge for the thing known"
Great kickoff! My only question is, what's in the Jerusalem and Athens? Even the omniscient Google didn't know
Wine and Wisky...it is written....lol
Keep it simple
Hahahaha. Thank you! Reminds me of a quote from The Office. "KISS, keep it simple, stupid. Best advice I've ever gotten, hurts me every time."
I hope Drew and Spencer can help me with one thing: I’m an old academic with a scholarly mindset. My tendency is to overthink and to break things down into their constituent parts. Left-brain dominance (cf. Iain McGilchrist). Nuance. Dostoevsky‘s character Shatov says he “wants” to believe. I get that. Like Jordan Peterson might say, I try to live in the world “as if” God exists. The hardest thing for me personally is that I can sense a higher intelligence, but I am not able to FEEL the incarnation of Jesus Christ. So that’s where I’m starting. Hoping this discussion will help.
Your thoughts very much eco my own. My own issue is reconciling the issue of "if god is good why" Having worked 30 years in ER I have some big "why's" that I am not able to just put aside however much I might wish I could.
Time is short, and my free-time shorter, but I will definitely find time for this discussion group. Andrew is a favorite author of mine and I look forward to reading their conversations.
I’m grateful for you Klavans. God is using your words and work for my growth so that I can better serve Him and neighbor. May His spirit continue to guide you and increase your joy and peace.
Are you a believer if you call Him Lord, Lord, but don’t do anything he tells you to do?
It’s possible to know the Lord is real and yet to rebel or reject Him as do Satan and demons who also seek to enlist humans in the rebellion through deceptions, accusations, doubts, and distrust. There are the lies that we humans can be as God or that We cannot trust in the goodness of God or rely on His promises. “Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven.”
It is baffling to wonder whether or how persons could still choose to reject or rebel were they ever fully able to recognize the sheer goodness of God in all his complete mercy and justice, truth and grace, and in His relentless quest to redeem and restore us while we are His enemies.
Oh, my, wine and wisky? I'm generally game for new experiences in cocktails, but that may be a bridge too far...
What is a Jerusalem and Athens?
So excited to have this front row seat. Thank you Klavans.