“Because why flock to a preacher, or a philosopher, or an artist or even a politician, if not to ease the pain of life, the fear of death, the grief of loss, the burden of unknowing and all “the thousand natural shocks that flesh is heir to”? Do we think no one ever noticed these before Christ came? Do we think they were ended by his coming? Can we dust the tragedy off our hands and say, “Well! That’s that!””
The reason “why” I flock to Christ is not so much for solace although there is that, but because He so obviously exists, having given me all that I need to live, a Comforter to be my solace and guide, the Eucharist to strengthen my way, and a community of believers within which to be a part of the Body of Christ. The question for me is not what God (or Church) has done for me, but rather what God would have me do for Him? What do I owe to the Person who has given me everything I have, including life itself, at the cost of His own? He says it is to love Him with my own Heart and to love my neighbor as myself. Those commandments give rise to a lifetime of seeking His will for me and trying to carry it out. It is more than enough to be going on with as the Irish say, and gives rise less to satisfaction with self and more to reliance on tears, at least in my case.
I don't think in terms of "all human love," but rather just my human love and my often failed attempts to mold it to the kind of love God would delight in me to share. I think of love as willing the best good of the other, as other, as opposed to a reflection of myself. I think this kind of love can be found amongst believer and non-believer alike, but it is rare to find it in anyone.
It is strange to me that the gospel draws a sharp line between life and death and yet so strongly emphasizes God’s forgiveness.
I know many good Christians who spend the majority of their time believing they’re cooked when they’re charitable, loving people who give their life to the world.
Christ is the Son of God, perfect. We spend our lives in prayer to understand difference between flesh and spirit. We will make mistakes along the way. Therefore, we tremble at our mistakes because asking forgiveness should never become easy.
I don’t really have the answer, but possibly. In His Good Samaritan parable, Christ told us that the man the Jews thought of as beneath them, would see God before all the rabbis and the self-righteous, or the tithe-givers.
What is not often mentioned is that the Samaritans were Israelites who mixed with other peoples, but still believed in the one true God, but the House of Judah (Jews) rejected them. The story of the woman at the well shows us this.
So, love alone may not be the path to salvation. Belief in Christ as the Son of God is needed too. St. Thomas Aquinas tells us that those who came before Christ were still inspired by God, and that’s Christ’s sacrifice would be for them, as well. His work in this area is a huge reason we have what classical works still remain. There were a good many Christians who wanted to destroy almost everything the pagans left behind. But AFTER Christ is a different matter. If you know of Him, but so not accept him as the Son of God…well, I wouldn’t want to be that person.
But that’s what we believe. Are we correct? Time will tell.
Phillipians 4: 8-9...the pursuit of beauty. A sterile Christianity is an abomination because Christ personified truth, love, goodness, beauty. Anyone before or after Christ who pursued these things is aiming toward God in spite of what they *think* their target is. Anyone before or after Christ who does not seek after these things is missing the target in spite of what they *think* their target is.
I love this topic. Sharing your devotion to Jesus Christ and your fascination with the Roman Empire, I am amazed how early Christians, who had no vote and no influence, were able to radically change civilization from the inside out. In his book Destroyer of the Gods, Larry Hurtado calls out the distinctiveness of early Christians. They worshipped Christ alone and rejected the idolatry of the Roman pantheon. Christianity was voluntary, not assigned at birth, and was open and available to anyone. We eschew he word "diversity" today, but early Christian communities included Greeks, Jews, and people of every tongue, tribe and nation. Hurtado called the early Christians "bookish", because they were focused on preserving and translating ancient texts and apostolic epistles. Finally, and most importantly, Christians acted differently - they sought to be holy. They valued the sanctity of life, rejected child abuse, practiced fidelity in marriage, fed the poor, attended to the sick and, most importantly, were willing to suffer and die for their faith in Christ. The persistance and counter-cultural resistance of the early church was tranformative and exported the truth and beauty of God to a dark and wicked world which now, as then, is full of many "cheap fakes".
God is soverign and is not surprised nor threatened by the politics of our day. We must be careful not to establish political affiliation as our religion. We should back up our vote with a life that gives honor and glory to Him.
Ok, here comes my “ants in a cookie jar” thing. Before Christ, we were like ants in a cookie jar. We were very smart ants and could analyze our situation very impressively — but we knew only the inside of the cookie jar. Christ lifted the lid off the cookie jar, and nothing has been the same for us since.
“My question remains: if the human condition is the puzzle, which of the oldest solutions endure and what has Christianity added to them? “ Before the human condition descended into the experience of both good and evil, there was God who made everything good. All that is good in paganism was borrowed from the original stuff God made. Christ worked to restore what creation started.
For me, Stoicism, along with the other good ones, outlines a melody that Christ played straight.
Yes, we should be calm and kind and not fear death. But why? Because we live by the spirit of the creator of everything.
If you were to ask a stoic what Marcus Aurelius means to him, he'll give you a different answer than if you ask a Christian what Christ means to him. But truthfully they should approach the same answer because we all seek God's light through teachers. And it was Christ who outlined that light most perfectly with words.
One day, we might get a monkey at a typewriter who stumbles into it as well. And I welcome that reality, as the world will be more peaceful and good with people (and monkeys??) living by the light.
The oldest answer is covenant. Maybe being bound to our God instead of to the world is the source of power. Maybe charity Is a state of understanding God's infinite and divine love for us. Maybe that is the only thing that can help us overcome ourselves and turn outward toward humanity.
Life only has a "disastrous conclusion" (tragedy) if one lives without God, without faith and without hope or charity in this vale of tears. Christ overcame the world and triumphed over spiritual and temporal death. I am following Him to a better world no matter the increase of misery and evil in this one. Without the hope of eternal life and mercy through our Redeemer and the confidence we can meet His requirements we are indeed doomed.
Seeking truth is a lifelong quest. Christ is the way the truth and the life, we know that. Still, as believers, exploring Him in this world can and should be a source of greater love and understanding. Truth doesn’t change but how we come to know it better only comes to us if we keep pursuing it as if it were a pha
“Because why flock to a preacher, or a philosopher, or an artist or even a politician, if not to ease the pain of life, the fear of death, the grief of loss, the burden of unknowing and all “the thousand natural shocks that flesh is heir to”? Do we think no one ever noticed these before Christ came? Do we think they were ended by his coming? Can we dust the tragedy off our hands and say, “Well! That’s that!””
The reason “why” I flock to Christ is not so much for solace although there is that, but because He so obviously exists, having given me all that I need to live, a Comforter to be my solace and guide, the Eucharist to strengthen my way, and a community of believers within which to be a part of the Body of Christ. The question for me is not what God (or Church) has done for me, but rather what God would have me do for Him? What do I owe to the Person who has given me everything I have, including life itself, at the cost of His own? He says it is to love Him with my own Heart and to love my neighbor as myself. Those commandments give rise to a lifetime of seeking His will for me and trying to carry it out. It is more than enough to be going on with as the Irish say, and gives rise less to satisfaction with self and more to reliance on tears, at least in my case.
Do you think all human love is an expression of God’s will? And if so, what if it comes from a nonbeliever?
I don't think in terms of "all human love," but rather just my human love and my often failed attempts to mold it to the kind of love God would delight in me to share. I think of love as willing the best good of the other, as other, as opposed to a reflection of myself. I think this kind of love can be found amongst believer and non-believer alike, but it is rare to find it in anyone.
It is strange to me that the gospel draws a sharp line between life and death and yet so strongly emphasizes God’s forgiveness.
I know many good Christians who spend the majority of their time believing they’re cooked when they’re charitable, loving people who give their life to the world.
We persevere to the end in fear and trembling, some of us.
But why tremble fearfully if Christ taught to live perfectly and worry not?
The Teacher's lessons are not the same as the student's practice.
Christ is the Son of God, perfect. We spend our lives in prayer to understand difference between flesh and spirit. We will make mistakes along the way. Therefore, we tremble at our mistakes because asking forgiveness should never become easy.
We believe everyone is created by God, so the answer is yes.
In that case should we cease debating how to be “saved” and focus our discussion on acts of love?
I don’t really have the answer, but possibly. In His Good Samaritan parable, Christ told us that the man the Jews thought of as beneath them, would see God before all the rabbis and the self-righteous, or the tithe-givers.
What is not often mentioned is that the Samaritans were Israelites who mixed with other peoples, but still believed in the one true God, but the House of Judah (Jews) rejected them. The story of the woman at the well shows us this.
So, love alone may not be the path to salvation. Belief in Christ as the Son of God is needed too. St. Thomas Aquinas tells us that those who came before Christ were still inspired by God, and that’s Christ’s sacrifice would be for them, as well. His work in this area is a huge reason we have what classical works still remain. There were a good many Christians who wanted to destroy almost everything the pagans left behind. But AFTER Christ is a different matter. If you know of Him, but so not accept him as the Son of God…well, I wouldn’t want to be that person.
But that’s what we believe. Are we correct? Time will tell.
But if acts of love are the will of God, why are do we study the shroud of Turin and not the lives of the saints?
We do both. We really do.
Phillipians 4: 8-9...the pursuit of beauty. A sterile Christianity is an abomination because Christ personified truth, love, goodness, beauty. Anyone before or after Christ who pursued these things is aiming toward God in spite of what they *think* their target is. Anyone before or after Christ who does not seek after these things is missing the target in spite of what they *think* their target is.
Team Klavan,
I love this topic. Sharing your devotion to Jesus Christ and your fascination with the Roman Empire, I am amazed how early Christians, who had no vote and no influence, were able to radically change civilization from the inside out. In his book Destroyer of the Gods, Larry Hurtado calls out the distinctiveness of early Christians. They worshipped Christ alone and rejected the idolatry of the Roman pantheon. Christianity was voluntary, not assigned at birth, and was open and available to anyone. We eschew he word "diversity" today, but early Christian communities included Greeks, Jews, and people of every tongue, tribe and nation. Hurtado called the early Christians "bookish", because they were focused on preserving and translating ancient texts and apostolic epistles. Finally, and most importantly, Christians acted differently - they sought to be holy. They valued the sanctity of life, rejected child abuse, practiced fidelity in marriage, fed the poor, attended to the sick and, most importantly, were willing to suffer and die for their faith in Christ. The persistance and counter-cultural resistance of the early church was tranformative and exported the truth and beauty of God to a dark and wicked world which now, as then, is full of many "cheap fakes".
God is soverign and is not surprised nor threatened by the politics of our day. We must be careful not to establish political affiliation as our religion. We should back up our vote with a life that gives honor and glory to Him.
Ok, here comes my “ants in a cookie jar” thing. Before Christ, we were like ants in a cookie jar. We were very smart ants and could analyze our situation very impressively — but we knew only the inside of the cookie jar. Christ lifted the lid off the cookie jar, and nothing has been the same for us since.
Socrates drank the poison hemlock while expounding on the eternity of the soul. That sounds pretty out of the cookie jar for his time.
Well, at least you provisionally embrace the cookie jar. 🐜
I like cookies
“My question remains: if the human condition is the puzzle, which of the oldest solutions endure and what has Christianity added to them? “ Before the human condition descended into the experience of both good and evil, there was God who made everything good. All that is good in paganism was borrowed from the original stuff God made. Christ worked to restore what creation started.
For me, Stoicism, along with the other good ones, outlines a melody that Christ played straight.
Yes, we should be calm and kind and not fear death. But why? Because we live by the spirit of the creator of everything.
If you were to ask a stoic what Marcus Aurelius means to him, he'll give you a different answer than if you ask a Christian what Christ means to him. But truthfully they should approach the same answer because we all seek God's light through teachers. And it was Christ who outlined that light most perfectly with words.
One day, we might get a monkey at a typewriter who stumbles into it as well. And I welcome that reality, as the world will be more peaceful and good with people (and monkeys??) living by the light.
The oldest answer is covenant. Maybe being bound to our God instead of to the world is the source of power. Maybe charity Is a state of understanding God's infinite and divine love for us. Maybe that is the only thing that can help us overcome ourselves and turn outward toward humanity.
Life only has a "disastrous conclusion" (tragedy) if one lives without God, without faith and without hope or charity in this vale of tears. Christ overcame the world and triumphed over spiritual and temporal death. I am following Him to a better world no matter the increase of misery and evil in this one. Without the hope of eternal life and mercy through our Redeemer and the confidence we can meet His requirements we are indeed doomed.
Seeking truth is a lifelong quest. Christ is the way the truth and the life, we know that. Still, as believers, exploring Him in this world can and should be a source of greater love and understanding. Truth doesn’t change but how we come to know it better only comes to us if we keep pursuing it as if it were a pha
Well said. To me it’s amazing that truth and love seem to be the same thing in reality while in language they seem far apart.