Whew! This is really getting to the heart of the central question: what is—or should be—the connection between Divine (religious) law and civil law, or even just moral law (whose morality?) and civil law? And what should be our role in advancing or defending—or ceding—that connection?
Obviously America’s Founders thought it was a pretty close relationship, but they had the benefit of operating within a culture solidly grounded in Judeo-Christian tradition and its moral order. We are, increasingly, no longer so fortunate.
So to what extent should we as Christian individuals put our energy towards the collective action needed to resist the cultural decay? To restore the moral order that, say, preserves the legal definition (and thus rights) of a woman as an “adult human female”? Or the legal definition of marriage (and thus the foundational family unit) as between one man and one woman?
Politics is downstream of culture, or so they say, and so if we are losing the culture, what is our path? Are we to cede the effort to use the power of law—which is the whole project of politics—to preserve our Judeo-Christian values? How does following individual conscience, with its sacrifices, fit with maintaining the collective political will to hold space, in our (supposedly) democratic republic, to live by conscience rather than lies?
In a (semi)nutshell: What is the difference between Christian teachings informing our personal path and politics, and Christian teachings informing our collective political action? I would love to know. Because if serving the highest good of others is the fundamental ask of a Christian, am I actually doing that if I step out of the way of another bringing serious harm upon themselves, or, more the point, into society as a whole? What’s my actual role, politically speaking, in protecting the innocent, preserving space for innocence? As a Christian of good conscience, how gently must I go into the coming dark night?
"Which brings up an important point. Christianity is not a practical religion. Follow it closely enough and you may become a saint, which almost never ends well."
Well now that depends on what is meant by Ends Well. Yes Yes you die rather uncomfortably, but then You Get To Go Home.
That small voice Klavan the Elder mentioned is also known as “morality”, quaint as it is. This is a great task of parenthood, turning a psychotic dwarf with a good prognosis (AKA toddlers) into functioning humans; it requires a lot of moral teaching. As Jordan Peterson states, by the age of 2, children can begin to socialize, and must do so, but must do so within rules. The job of parents requires a lot of saying no, and enforcing it with appropriate and just consequences. Building a moral being is difficult, but far easier with religious perspectives, as we do not have to reinvent the wheel of morality for each person as they mature. The rules are already there. An atheist friend stated that justice was all “just common sense” but that requires a very sophisticated code that all agree on. If one chooses utilitarianism, another hedonism, and another power, there’s gonna be battles. My friend’s moral code was essentially the same as mine, but he just ignores or chooses to ignore the source, believing it to be written on his soul, which he might also reject as having. It takes far stronger faith to be an atheist than a believer.
Andrew, I love how you see things...or should I say, how you see THROUGH things...to the heart of the matter. You definitely nailed the way politicians or leftist "spiritual" leaders misuse scripture to get what they want. I'm reading Megan Basham's book right now (Shepherds for Sale) and I'm just appalled at the way some Evangelical leaders are turning their backs on clear teachings of scripture while twisting other scriptures to make a case for the leftist agenda. Lord, help us all.
Beautifully written, as always and directionally I agree. And I agree that God doesn't control people. He works around us very nicely, but I think He keeps our freedom intact. You lost me a a bit at the end. At some point, Jesus will come back and step into political power for 1000 years or so and He won't be corrupt.
Andrew has a bit of disdain for…the French. Ever since I saw Rowan’s show on HBO from NYC, I have paused for an instant, whenever I say…the French. In the link you provided, it’s a little better on the on just below the video you liked. That’s the HBO show from NY. And I mentioned it here on another thread, the first time I heard (read) Andrew showing that disdain for…the French. 😂
Whew! This is really getting to the heart of the central question: what is—or should be—the connection between Divine (religious) law and civil law, or even just moral law (whose morality?) and civil law? And what should be our role in advancing or defending—or ceding—that connection?
Obviously America’s Founders thought it was a pretty close relationship, but they had the benefit of operating within a culture solidly grounded in Judeo-Christian tradition and its moral order. We are, increasingly, no longer so fortunate.
So to what extent should we as Christian individuals put our energy towards the collective action needed to resist the cultural decay? To restore the moral order that, say, preserves the legal definition (and thus rights) of a woman as an “adult human female”? Or the legal definition of marriage (and thus the foundational family unit) as between one man and one woman?
Politics is downstream of culture, or so they say, and so if we are losing the culture, what is our path? Are we to cede the effort to use the power of law—which is the whole project of politics—to preserve our Judeo-Christian values? How does following individual conscience, with its sacrifices, fit with maintaining the collective political will to hold space, in our (supposedly) democratic republic, to live by conscience rather than lies?
In a (semi)nutshell: What is the difference between Christian teachings informing our personal path and politics, and Christian teachings informing our collective political action? I would love to know. Because if serving the highest good of others is the fundamental ask of a Christian, am I actually doing that if I step out of the way of another bringing serious harm upon themselves, or, more the point, into society as a whole? What’s my actual role, politically speaking, in protecting the innocent, preserving space for innocence? As a Christian of good conscience, how gently must I go into the coming dark night?
We should ❤️ this to the 🔝
"Which brings up an important point. Christianity is not a practical religion. Follow it closely enough and you may become a saint, which almost never ends well."
Well now that depends on what is meant by Ends Well. Yes Yes you die rather uncomfortably, but then You Get To Go Home.
That small voice Klavan the Elder mentioned is also known as “morality”, quaint as it is. This is a great task of parenthood, turning a psychotic dwarf with a good prognosis (AKA toddlers) into functioning humans; it requires a lot of moral teaching. As Jordan Peterson states, by the age of 2, children can begin to socialize, and must do so, but must do so within rules. The job of parents requires a lot of saying no, and enforcing it with appropriate and just consequences. Building a moral being is difficult, but far easier with religious perspectives, as we do not have to reinvent the wheel of morality for each person as they mature. The rules are already there. An atheist friend stated that justice was all “just common sense” but that requires a very sophisticated code that all agree on. If one chooses utilitarianism, another hedonism, and another power, there’s gonna be battles. My friend’s moral code was essentially the same as mine, but he just ignores or chooses to ignore the source, believing it to be written on his soul, which he might also reject as having. It takes far stronger faith to be an atheist than a believer.
It’s a funny thing that “the truth” needs to be reiterated
Andrew, I love how you see things...or should I say, how you see THROUGH things...to the heart of the matter. You definitely nailed the way politicians or leftist "spiritual" leaders misuse scripture to get what they want. I'm reading Megan Basham's book right now (Shepherds for Sale) and I'm just appalled at the way some Evangelical leaders are turning their backs on clear teachings of scripture while twisting other scriptures to make a case for the leftist agenda. Lord, help us all.
Beautifully written, as always and directionally I agree. And I agree that God doesn't control people. He works around us very nicely, but I think He keeps our freedom intact. You lost me a a bit at the end. At some point, Jesus will come back and step into political power for 1000 years or so and He won't be corrupt.
One heart at a time demands perserverance. That kind of perserverance is the fruit of the Holy Spirit.
“You can’t rightly demand sacrifice of others.”
Sounds like my uncle Tolstoy
And some of those ramifications may involve an extremely warm, humid climate with no air conditioning. 🤔
Rowan Atkinson: Toby the Devil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrwIs10XvKA
Andrew has a bit of disdain for…the French. Ever since I saw Rowan’s show on HBO from NYC, I have paused for an instant, whenever I say…the French. In the link you provided, it’s a little better on the on just below the video you liked. That’s the HBO show from NY. And I mentioned it here on another thread, the first time I heard (read) Andrew showing that disdain for…the French. 😂
He Is British! The French & The British they have....History. About a thousand years.
Andrew is not British. As for Rowan Atkinson, it is only funny because we know the history.