As I have grown older, I have found that happy families are the rarity. Also, from this older perspective, unhappiness and evil become more similar with less variations. "I've heard it all before" when there is a list of evil or complaints or unhappiness. I am much more drawn to discussions of how people enjoy life, keep love in gheir hearts and follow God's will.
I think there is a way where your contention is correct, but overall it's important to distinguish between the "natural" state of things and the reality of the state of things. Our reality is fallen, broken, and full of sin. It's the condition since the fall, but we were not made for that. We were made to glorify God and enjoy his presence for eternity. Our reason for existence is our nature and the closer we draw to God, the closer we come to that true nature. There was never a mistake in our making, only our making of mistakes.
Still, I think this is only a piece of the Klavans' points about good being the reality.
I confess I'm having trouble with both of your pronouncements that good is the reality, and evil is the shadow. How does that reconcile with our natural sinful state? How is sin a given in a good world? Of all people, Bono (of U2), said a thing that ties this together. I can't quote verbatim, but something to the effect of---at the heart of the universe is the notion of karma--basically physics. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, and what goes around comes around. But the Bible introduces us to Grace. Grace interrupts, love breaks the equation and it isn't part of karma or physics." And while that's just a thought, if it is a true one--then it means that good is not the natural state of things.
Sin is not our natural state. It is the condition in which we find ourselves when we violate what is natural. God created, beheld, and called creation good (or very good). Man was created in God's image. Our world is fallen, but Jesus lived as a new and perfect Adam to provide a path back to the order that was originally (naturally?) in our design. Good is how things once were and how they will be again. It's also part of the existence when things move exactly how they are meant to in a world where human corruption, regardless of how pervasive, doesn't win in the end.
Thank you for that. I appreciate the response and can't disagree in the main. But am I picking nits, or is not sin our natural state from the moment "Eve ate the apple," as it were? I mean are we essentially saying that God created Adam, that got messed up, then Jesus comes along--but he only does so and has to do what He does because of our sinful nature?
My favourite Bono story: Bono is at a festival somewhere and after a song, he stands silently and then begins clapping his hands once every second. To complete rapt silence he steps up to the microphone. "Every time I clap my hands, six young kids in Africa die". Some little scamp down the front shouts back. "Well fucking stop it then!"
I have had three dreams in my life that seemed to be revealing something mystical and true. One dream was a brief glimpse of what I understood to be Heaven—and a version of Heaven that was especially tailored for me. This was before I had learned of Jesus saying that in his Father’s house there are many mansions.
Your speculation about Heaven struck me because it expressed something about the way that I felt in my dream. There was a warm, glittering banquet hall, and I was there with many others, happier than I had ever been. Somehow I was the belle of the ball, but somehow everyone else there was also that special, and we reveled in each other’s company.
As I have grown older, I have found that happy families are the rarity. Also, from this older perspective, unhappiness and evil become more similar with less variations. "I've heard it all before" when there is a list of evil or complaints or unhappiness. I am much more drawn to discussions of how people enjoy life, keep love in gheir hearts and follow God's will.
I think there is a way where your contention is correct, but overall it's important to distinguish between the "natural" state of things and the reality of the state of things. Our reality is fallen, broken, and full of sin. It's the condition since the fall, but we were not made for that. We were made to glorify God and enjoy his presence for eternity. Our reason for existence is our nature and the closer we draw to God, the closer we come to that true nature. There was never a mistake in our making, only our making of mistakes.
Still, I think this is only a piece of the Klavans' points about good being the reality.
I confess I'm having trouble with both of your pronouncements that good is the reality, and evil is the shadow. How does that reconcile with our natural sinful state? How is sin a given in a good world? Of all people, Bono (of U2), said a thing that ties this together. I can't quote verbatim, but something to the effect of---at the heart of the universe is the notion of karma--basically physics. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, and what goes around comes around. But the Bible introduces us to Grace. Grace interrupts, love breaks the equation and it isn't part of karma or physics." And while that's just a thought, if it is a true one--then it means that good is not the natural state of things.
Sin is not our natural state. It is the condition in which we find ourselves when we violate what is natural. God created, beheld, and called creation good (or very good). Man was created in God's image. Our world is fallen, but Jesus lived as a new and perfect Adam to provide a path back to the order that was originally (naturally?) in our design. Good is how things once were and how they will be again. It's also part of the existence when things move exactly how they are meant to in a world where human corruption, regardless of how pervasive, doesn't win in the end.
Thank you for that. I appreciate the response and can't disagree in the main. But am I picking nits, or is not sin our natural state from the moment "Eve ate the apple," as it were? I mean are we essentially saying that God created Adam, that got messed up, then Jesus comes along--but he only does so and has to do what He does because of our sinful nature?
My favourite Bono story: Bono is at a festival somewhere and after a song, he stands silently and then begins clapping his hands once every second. To complete rapt silence he steps up to the microphone. "Every time I clap my hands, six young kids in Africa die". Some little scamp down the front shouts back. "Well fucking stop it then!"
I have a very happy family. It's great.
I have had three dreams in my life that seemed to be revealing something mystical and true. One dream was a brief glimpse of what I understood to be Heaven—and a version of Heaven that was especially tailored for me. This was before I had learned of Jesus saying that in his Father’s house there are many mansions.
Your speculation about Heaven struck me because it expressed something about the way that I felt in my dream. There was a warm, glittering banquet hall, and I was there with many others, happier than I had ever been. Somehow I was the belle of the ball, but somehow everyone else there was also that special, and we reveled in each other’s company.