Thank you so much for this post. I’m a big fan of both of you. If I didn’t know better I’d swear you two were related.
I’m a 60 year old Christian who is gay. I grew up in a conservative religious family and community.
I have no doubt that God created me this way. Not sure why and it’s not for me to question. I’m just trying to live my life as Jesus taught us.
I want to say that I read the Bible every day and pray for guidance. Of course I’ve asked for clarity and guidance in how to deal with my situation. I’m sure there are others who can relate to this.
I’ve been in a committed relationship for 24 years. We’re the same age. He’s a Christian as well who grew up in a similar environment. Among many, many other positive things that has resulted from our relationship, I believe God brought us together to care for each other as neither of us has anyone else. This is becoming more evident as we deal with the aging process. I can’t just abandon someone who has brought so much growth and stability to my life.
I respect that there are conflicting views on this among Christians. I just ask that we treat each other with dignity and respect. Please don’t assume that those of us who are dealing with this issue haven’t been looking to God for guidance. It tears me up to think that this one issue may result in eternal suffering especially for those of us who are trying their best to live their lives for Jesus. I don’t believe that I’m destined for hell because of this.
Sorry for the rambling. This post really hit home for me.
Andrew if you passed on one trait to your son, it is that your very life reflects that you are on God's errand. Both of you have made a tremendous difference in my life.
What a beautiful tribute this is--to Spencer, as well as to MacArthur. I didn't know who he was until, after his death, my brothers told me that our late mother was very much a follower of his. I'm glad to see the breadth of what he evidently believed.
I have three dear friends who "are gay." One went to help groups and prayed for God's guidance to be delivered from his disordered affections. He is now happily married to his lovely wife. The next friend was the hyper promiscuous fem-coded type who loved his nightclubs in San Fran and LA. He had been openly gay since the age of 14, when his older sister exposed him at a family affair. One day in his late twenties, he decided that he didn't want to be gay anymore. I met him a couple of years into his five-year healing/conversion journey. David is one of the Holiest, loving men I know. He is now dating women and will be the best husband and father imaginable when the time comes. David regularly attends men's help groups throughout the country to help men with unwanted same sex attraction. Finally, there is Will. Will struggled with same sex attraction in his youth. He entered into seminary and became, autodidactically, a composer and then director of the music program at the age of 22. Will is a contemplative genius and struggles with same sex attraction. The Church paid for psychotherapy and tenderly provided for his needs with his struggle as he requested. Will eventually dropped out before being ordained a deacon. He now works in music and works as a pastor's assistant in a large parish. What do my three amazing "gay" friends have in common? In the midst of their desires, and at the risk of threatening their identity or reordering their social life from the ground up in one case, they accepted the teachings of mother Church and trusted that God would provide for them a path out. Jesus walked so intimately close with them along that path. I was a witness. Now, I am stunned by the holiness of these three friends of mine. They have learned to tune themselves to the holy spirit. This correspondence to grace has made them into gentle pastors in their own right.
I can’t pretend to understand the full measure and mysteries of God. I know and have known many loving gay and lesbian people. When one asked me why we got along so well considering she was lesbian and I was Christian, I simply told her it wasn’t my job to judge her it was mine simply to love her.
First of all, I want to thank you and Spencer for your commentaries which have been so meaningful to me. Both of you guys are not only brilliant but very caring and kind individuals.
Your teachings have really inspired and helped me along my faith journey. Both of you constantly show the beauty and the grace of God's truths.
As many people have written, if you don't have enemies then you are probably not much of a man. Both you and Spencer exhibit exactly what is stated in the Bible about what God requires: " to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humble with God". Micah 6:8. Wishing for God's richest blessings to you both and your family. Richard p.s. i really do wish that you would compile your commentaries in the New Jerusalem into a book. Would love to buy it.
I just heard of John McArthur for the first time yesterday. I admire the position he took with you and I admire the willingness to stand against governmental tyranny in anyone. What I read, however, showed me that his willingness to stand against abuse didn't extend to the wives within his flock. The Christian writer from whom I heard about McArthur had this to say about the way "sin" is handled by some Christians:
"From where I sit, it is really difficult for me to reconcile the scope of Christian outrage over seemingly trivial issues like Christian singers accepting invitations from gay tv hosts with what seems like an overwhelming apathy when it comes to naming real abuses like prominent pastors who bully battered women into returning to their criminally violent husbands. I may never be able to make peace with this. I mean really? Christians engaging with gay people in the public sphere is worth a hundred outraged headlines, but we hear crickets from Christian media about Eileen Gray? In fact, we absolutely demonize the few brave voices willing to speak up about the latter? How can this be?"
Eileen Gray, it turns out, was a member of McArthur's Grace Church Fellowship until she refused to be pressured by him and his staff into remaining with her violent husband (who abused their children as well). Then she was cast out of the flock, shunned by them at the good shepherd's instruction. It seems for all his open-heartedness towards Spencer, he utterly failed in his Biblical understanding on a very consequential front. I guess it goes to show how complicated and fallible otherwise righteous human beings are.
For anyone interested, here is the link to the piece I quoted from above; within it you will find Eileen Gray's name hyperlinked to the story of her abuse by her husband, and by the clergy to whom she turned for help. It's a pretty sad tale. At least her ex-husband ended up in jail.
Respectfully, since you just heard about John MacArthur yesterday, I suspect you’ve not been part of our congregation. It’s probably safe to assume you don’t know Eileen Gray, the counselors involved in her case, the elders of the church, or the intervention that went on (twenty-five years ago). Most people on the internet don’t. They read some articles and start pointing fingers and judge the situation without any personal knowledge. I must say…your comment that Eileen was “cast out of the flock and shunned at the good shepherd’s instruction” is a woeful misrepresentation of our church and slanderous toward a man you’ve never even met. "He utterly failed in his Biblical understanding"...hummm…you might want to google him before you judge his Biblical understanding. The MacArthur Study Bible has sold over 4 million copies worldwide and that’s only the tip of his ministry iceberg. So many articles out there are sound-bites and only half of the story. I encourage you to remember Proverbs 18:17 ~The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
Every one needs to practice reading the bible like a recipe book. Some pick out a few ingredients that suits their personal prejudices then you can end up with communism & gulags . Some use far more of it’s ingredients and end up being even able to love their enemies, forgive , judge not , for humanity is fallen but not beyond repentance. Another part of this recipe book illustrates some of Jobs misfortune for which his friends regarded as sin in (in their worldly perspective) . one can note his adversity was actually of Gods doing and His plans are not fully revealed to anyone whether friends or foe . And Spencer being made in the image of that Gods work , like Job walks far closer to righteous his maker wishes than most of Spencer’s detractors do.
So maybe the real sinners are those who judge Gods works and plans in Job & Spencer for they are distracted as in the Mary & Martha tale on to small a ingredient for Christ to live in there hearts , in favour of just a small ingredient of laws with out Christs seasoning, because that suits a personal prejudice , one needs to consider being a better chef ?
"There was no mistaking his meaning. He knew who you were. He knew where I stood. And he was telling me that, no matter our differences, we agreed on this: No one falls out of the circle of God’s love."
1. like to tell people Its Not My Job To Say Who Is Saved (ie a Christian). That's Handled by Someone MUCH BETTER qualified. My job is to spread The Good News.
2. All I ask from homosexuals is Say Out Of My Face With It! As My Buddy Rick would say "That's A Below The Waist Thing, I Don't Want To know."
Thank you so much for this post. I’m a big fan of both of you. If I didn’t know better I’d swear you two were related.
I’m a 60 year old Christian who is gay. I grew up in a conservative religious family and community.
I have no doubt that God created me this way. Not sure why and it’s not for me to question. I’m just trying to live my life as Jesus taught us.
I want to say that I read the Bible every day and pray for guidance. Of course I’ve asked for clarity and guidance in how to deal with my situation. I’m sure there are others who can relate to this.
I’ve been in a committed relationship for 24 years. We’re the same age. He’s a Christian as well who grew up in a similar environment. Among many, many other positive things that has resulted from our relationship, I believe God brought us together to care for each other as neither of us has anyone else. This is becoming more evident as we deal with the aging process. I can’t just abandon someone who has brought so much growth and stability to my life.
I respect that there are conflicting views on this among Christians. I just ask that we treat each other with dignity and respect. Please don’t assume that those of us who are dealing with this issue haven’t been looking to God for guidance. It tears me up to think that this one issue may result in eternal suffering especially for those of us who are trying their best to live their lives for Jesus. I don’t believe that I’m destined for hell because of this.
Sorry for the rambling. This post really hit home for me.
Andrew if you passed on one trait to your son, it is that your very life reflects that you are on God's errand. Both of you have made a tremendous difference in my life.
What a beautiful tribute this is--to Spencer, as well as to MacArthur. I didn't know who he was until, after his death, my brothers told me that our late mother was very much a follower of his. I'm glad to see the breadth of what he evidently believed.
I have three dear friends who "are gay." One went to help groups and prayed for God's guidance to be delivered from his disordered affections. He is now happily married to his lovely wife. The next friend was the hyper promiscuous fem-coded type who loved his nightclubs in San Fran and LA. He had been openly gay since the age of 14, when his older sister exposed him at a family affair. One day in his late twenties, he decided that he didn't want to be gay anymore. I met him a couple of years into his five-year healing/conversion journey. David is one of the Holiest, loving men I know. He is now dating women and will be the best husband and father imaginable when the time comes. David regularly attends men's help groups throughout the country to help men with unwanted same sex attraction. Finally, there is Will. Will struggled with same sex attraction in his youth. He entered into seminary and became, autodidactically, a composer and then director of the music program at the age of 22. Will is a contemplative genius and struggles with same sex attraction. The Church paid for psychotherapy and tenderly provided for his needs with his struggle as he requested. Will eventually dropped out before being ordained a deacon. He now works in music and works as a pastor's assistant in a large parish. What do my three amazing "gay" friends have in common? In the midst of their desires, and at the risk of threatening their identity or reordering their social life from the ground up in one case, they accepted the teachings of mother Church and trusted that God would provide for them a path out. Jesus walked so intimately close with them along that path. I was a witness. Now, I am stunned by the holiness of these three friends of mine. They have learned to tune themselves to the holy spirit. This correspondence to grace has made them into gentle pastors in their own right.
I can’t pretend to understand the full measure and mysteries of God. I know and have known many loving gay and lesbian people. When one asked me why we got along so well considering she was lesbian and I was Christian, I simply told her it wasn’t my job to judge her it was mine simply to love her.
Hi Andrew
First of all, I want to thank you and Spencer for your commentaries which have been so meaningful to me. Both of you guys are not only brilliant but very caring and kind individuals.
Your teachings have really inspired and helped me along my faith journey. Both of you constantly show the beauty and the grace of God's truths.
As many people have written, if you don't have enemies then you are probably not much of a man. Both you and Spencer exhibit exactly what is stated in the Bible about what God requires: " to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humble with God". Micah 6:8. Wishing for God's richest blessings to you both and your family. Richard p.s. i really do wish that you would compile your commentaries in the New Jerusalem into a book. Would love to buy it.
I just heard of John McArthur for the first time yesterday. I admire the position he took with you and I admire the willingness to stand against governmental tyranny in anyone. What I read, however, showed me that his willingness to stand against abuse didn't extend to the wives within his flock. The Christian writer from whom I heard about McArthur had this to say about the way "sin" is handled by some Christians:
"From where I sit, it is really difficult for me to reconcile the scope of Christian outrage over seemingly trivial issues like Christian singers accepting invitations from gay tv hosts with what seems like an overwhelming apathy when it comes to naming real abuses like prominent pastors who bully battered women into returning to their criminally violent husbands. I may never be able to make peace with this. I mean really? Christians engaging with gay people in the public sphere is worth a hundred outraged headlines, but we hear crickets from Christian media about Eileen Gray? In fact, we absolutely demonize the few brave voices willing to speak up about the latter? How can this be?"
Eileen Gray, it turns out, was a member of McArthur's Grace Church Fellowship until she refused to be pressured by him and his staff into remaining with her violent husband (who abused their children as well). Then she was cast out of the flock, shunned by them at the good shepherd's instruction. It seems for all his open-heartedness towards Spencer, he utterly failed in his Biblical understanding on a very consequential front. I guess it goes to show how complicated and fallible otherwise righteous human beings are.
For anyone interested, here is the link to the piece I quoted from above; within it you will find Eileen Gray's name hyperlinked to the story of her abuse by her husband, and by the clergy to whom she turned for help. It's a pretty sad tale. At least her ex-husband ended up in jail.
https://kaeleytrillerharms.substack.com/p/blinded-by-the-barnyard-orwells-warning
Respectfully, since you just heard about John MacArthur yesterday, I suspect you’ve not been part of our congregation. It’s probably safe to assume you don’t know Eileen Gray, the counselors involved in her case, the elders of the church, or the intervention that went on (twenty-five years ago). Most people on the internet don’t. They read some articles and start pointing fingers and judge the situation without any personal knowledge. I must say…your comment that Eileen was “cast out of the flock and shunned at the good shepherd’s instruction” is a woeful misrepresentation of our church and slanderous toward a man you’ve never even met. "He utterly failed in his Biblical understanding"...hummm…you might want to google him before you judge his Biblical understanding. The MacArthur Study Bible has sold over 4 million copies worldwide and that’s only the tip of his ministry iceberg. So many articles out there are sound-bites and only half of the story. I encourage you to remember Proverbs 18:17 ~The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
Every one needs to practice reading the bible like a recipe book. Some pick out a few ingredients that suits their personal prejudices then you can end up with communism & gulags . Some use far more of it’s ingredients and end up being even able to love their enemies, forgive , judge not , for humanity is fallen but not beyond repentance. Another part of this recipe book illustrates some of Jobs misfortune for which his friends regarded as sin in (in their worldly perspective) . one can note his adversity was actually of Gods doing and His plans are not fully revealed to anyone whether friends or foe . And Spencer being made in the image of that Gods work , like Job walks far closer to righteous his maker wishes than most of Spencer’s detractors do.
So maybe the real sinners are those who judge Gods works and plans in Job & Spencer for they are distracted as in the Mary & Martha tale on to small a ingredient for Christ to live in there hearts , in favour of just a small ingredient of laws with out Christs seasoning, because that suits a personal prejudice , one needs to consider being a better chef ?
As a parent myself, I cried… especially reading about risking your own salvation in front of the throne…me too.
This is beautiful!
Me too. I very much enjoy Sprong’s writings.
"There was no mistaking his meaning. He knew who you were. He knew where I stood. And he was telling me that, no matter our differences, we agreed on this: No one falls out of the circle of God’s love."
1. like to tell people Its Not My Job To Say Who Is Saved (ie a Christian). That's Handled by Someone MUCH BETTER qualified. My job is to spread The Good News.
2. All I ask from homosexuals is Say Out Of My Face With It! As My Buddy Rick would say "That's A Below The Waist Thing, I Don't Want To know."