Fortuitously, as this posted, I was reading from the Summa Theologica about how Baptism infuses in us habits of virtue, but it is up to us to make individual acts of those virtues. God does not leave us orphans, but gives us grace “sufficient to stand but free to fall.”
Agreed with all of the above. Nothing of worth comes without some form of discipline. Education, love of another, marriage, parenthood, and even worthwhile hobbies take time and dedication as well as study to fully master and enjoy. The internet is a tool, but also a great temptation. My wife never needed the internet for temptation; open any book or magazine in front of her, and it is as if you have opened a trap door. You will not see her for hours. She rereads Jane Austin as if it is the Torah. She derives great joy in her deep dives, and more power to her. Without her ability to read and discern, she would be much less joyful and happy. However, if indulged too much or at the wrong times, children do not get picked up, dinner burns (I’m doing most of the cooking) or other things happen. I have my escapes, and TV used to be a big time waster for me in the past, but also the way to decompress after a too-busy day.
For a few years, I had played first-person shooters after dinner, in order to relax. I finished a game, and wanted to brag a bit, but realized I had devoted hours of pushing a trigger button, learning nothing and developing no useful skill instead of accomplishing something of worth. I have found other worthwhile pursuits, and haven’t played a game since then. My life is richer as a result.
Like any other temptation, the internet should be supervised when the young are using it until they are older (perhaps 35 or so; mirrors my view on voting rights). We do restrict alcohol, tobacco products and other things (gambling). Brain maturation only occurs in the mid 20’s so I suspect lower age limits are pecuniary rather than logical. However, it seems inappropriate to ask someone to die for the country but not allow a say in things (voting, etc).
My personal experience mirrors St. Augustine. I have had to lose substantial amounts of weight, and it would have been far easier to quit eating altogether than to moderate eating, which I have to do for the rest of my life. Once fat cells are born, they never die and are always screaming for their next meal. One who quits smoking, drugs or drinking can abstain forever, but those who have successfully lost weight must eat less than their never fat peers to maintain the same weight. Such is the lot of my previous overindulgences.
Like any other useful tool, from the first rock thrown in anger to the printing press, from the wheel to aircraft, or anything else imaginable, it can be abused, and must be mastered. Never before has a medium been so tailor-made to addict the vulnerable. Following subsidiarity, the first and most important guard should be the parents. Failing that, move up the ladder to the least intrusive level that is effective. Difficult when so many in “control” seem to be bending the ‘net to their own uses.
I disagree with mastering to enjoy something. Learning and advancing can be even more satisfying than attacking the ultimate mastery. In almost everything I’ve ever done, the journey, or the chase, was always at least as joyful as the destination.
Perhaps I was not as careful with word placement as I might have been. I should have said enjoy and master. I have several hobbies (since I retired, I have more time to indulge them). I have mastered nothing in life, but derive far more enjoyment from each pursuit I follow. Those which require no mastery are soon dropped. The movie “War Games” had an excellent example of it: “Did you play tic-tax-toe as a child?” He pointed out that one no longer plays it because there was no challenge to it. Diversions which require nothing of me are merely that.
Mastery is something which is achieved in stages, and each achievement is in itself enjoyable. Even in my profession, many were very good at what they did, but even the best would readily admit that they need to continue to learn. I guess we could then debate what it means to “master” anything.
Note that others quote Augustine and Milton. I quote movies, and occasionally, Milton-Bradley. My wife puts up with me, in part because I listen to her go on about Mansfield Park.
I know the feeling. I “mastered” a few things, such as BASIC, Visual Basic 3, and then VB6, then VB Script, JavaScript, XML, ASP, and…. Well, I never mastered ASPX 1, then 2, the 3 (Active Server Pages with ActiveX).
You might see the problem there. Every time I became proficient (or better), something new came along I had to learn. While we should all learn something new from time to time, I felt as if I was always learning, but never applying what I knew. At least not the way I wanted, because my program in the US Navy kept changing requirements, as the technologies changed.
So, I understand what you mean. Even with what I said about the journey being as much fun as reaching the destination, let’s face it, you want to enjoy the destination at some too. 🤷🏼♂️
A nugget of Chestertonian gold: If you want to be the kind of creature that can taste steak, you have to be the kind of creature that fights against gluttony. That’s the deal.
I definitely have seen a lot of people mature in how they use social media over the years, so perhaps there is hope?! The unfortunate thing about baptizing a new medium is that it’ll take a lot of people to individually stand up and say NO, first of all to themselves, and that is nigh impossible without a higher understanding of life.
Slightly off-topic, but as I consider my time online, and wish I could spend much less of it there, I'm grateful for treasures like the charming painting illustrating this thoughtful post: First Steps by Marguerite Gérard, ca. 1788, Hermitage Museum. If not for the internet (hat tips to Spencer, and to Google Reverse Image Search), would I have come upon it at all, outside of an unlikely visit to St. Petersburg?
Indeed the net is almost a mandatory vehicle, at least if anyone wants to sift through news to find facts. Without it, we’d have to go back to trusting the talking heads in TV. And we know how reliable they are. 🙄
God made us to enjoy the world, but He also made us imperfect, as imperfect as the angels. We are both fallen—some of them; all of us. I’m pretty sure the Lord did not want automatons, but free-thinking creatures, with whom He could debate, at least for man. After all, He almost always forgives us, but not them.
That’s not to say God made a mistake in either creation. He must have needed to give some free-will to the angels for the jobs they have to do, or they would never have fallen. For us, however, there is no doubt He fully gave us free-will. The only question would be why, and I think I have a good answer, one I mentioned above.
Thank you for reminding us yet again that it is possible for us to live into our divine potential, that the wrestle is the point, and that we were sent now , for "such a time as this." You and your dad inspire me regularly and I thank God for your influence and goodness when I pray.❤️🙏
The issue I wrestle with when it comes to something as pervasive, infrastructural, and institutional as the internet, social media, and phone/screen use, is, I don't know what I'm wrestling with. I see the effects, I know that by the fruit you shall know them, and the fruits are bad, which makes me think this whole enterprise is bad, but what was the purpose the internet was designed for? I don't know and I don't know if we're going to ever be able to know. AI seems to be a part, if not the whole, reason the internet as a tool was created for. (If you think about the history of the computer that Alan Turing invented) What's the purpose of AI? Again, I don't know.
The internet and phones are tools. Tools are amoral. A hammer is good if it's used to pound a nail, it's bad if it's used to pound a human head. That being said, the Nazi state could also be seen as a systematic and powerful tool used to destroy the world starting with the Jews. Slavery was a kind of a systematic tool as well used to enrich the owners at the expense of human beings.
I don't know what this tool the internet system is, but by every metric it seems to be causing more harm than good. That doesn't mean we can't use it, and use it well. I love Substack, for instance, and I'm not about to abandon it. But an analogy I thought of over the weekend was of that ingenius man we heard about in Desantis' curriculum who took what he learned while being a slave and used it after slavery was abolished to further himself in his life.
Human beings are incredible. That story was a powerful one about how we can transform our surroundings, no matter how truly terrible, and turn them to something good. Is that like what is happening with the best parts of the Internet? Are Substack and good podcasts people turning something inherently destructive on its head or is the internet something else?
It's always talked about like it's pure potentiality and we put a bad form or a good form into it, making our experience of it good or bad. I just don't know, at all, what I'm looking at here. But the harm it's causing makes me feel very, very cautious about it, despite using it constantly every day. But maybe that's how mankind felt about fire the first time they saw it. Who knows?
Great point. Bowie called it “an alien invasion,” which expresses some of the disorientation and ubiquity that characterize it. I think honestly something similar must be implied in what we mean by “the printing press.” Yes it’s an object, but we’re really referring to an entire upheaval in ways of life.
In my own life experience, kneeling at the foot of the Cross is the only place to discover my worth. Worth perhaps allowing me to fulfill my potential. “Lord, You have accomplished all that we have done.” Book of Isaiah
Katherine
My birthday fell on Father’s Day in 1950. June 18th
And resisting this new seduction will require a shift in society that inspires us to overcome temptations...whereas the current one applauds succumbing or "owning" our vices. It must look like a renaissance of sorts, or a return to medieval virtues as mentioned. It's just so hard to put a finger on what it will look like much less how taking our first baby steps could possibly grow to such a scale. But Enoch managed to scale it.
Fortuitously, as this posted, I was reading from the Summa Theologica about how Baptism infuses in us habits of virtue, but it is up to us to make individual acts of those virtues. God does not leave us orphans, but gives us grace “sufficient to stand but free to fall.”
That’s awesome. Does he say that quote? Milton must have stolen it from him. I never realized.
It was article 6. https://www.newadvent.org/summa/4069.htm#article6
Oh no, I interpolated the two quotes. That is Milton. But the question is III, Q. 69. I think it was article 7. Talking about infant baptism actually.
Agreed with all of the above. Nothing of worth comes without some form of discipline. Education, love of another, marriage, parenthood, and even worthwhile hobbies take time and dedication as well as study to fully master and enjoy. The internet is a tool, but also a great temptation. My wife never needed the internet for temptation; open any book or magazine in front of her, and it is as if you have opened a trap door. You will not see her for hours. She rereads Jane Austin as if it is the Torah. She derives great joy in her deep dives, and more power to her. Without her ability to read and discern, she would be much less joyful and happy. However, if indulged too much or at the wrong times, children do not get picked up, dinner burns (I’m doing most of the cooking) or other things happen. I have my escapes, and TV used to be a big time waster for me in the past, but also the way to decompress after a too-busy day.
For a few years, I had played first-person shooters after dinner, in order to relax. I finished a game, and wanted to brag a bit, but realized I had devoted hours of pushing a trigger button, learning nothing and developing no useful skill instead of accomplishing something of worth. I have found other worthwhile pursuits, and haven’t played a game since then. My life is richer as a result.
Like any other temptation, the internet should be supervised when the young are using it until they are older (perhaps 35 or so; mirrors my view on voting rights). We do restrict alcohol, tobacco products and other things (gambling). Brain maturation only occurs in the mid 20’s so I suspect lower age limits are pecuniary rather than logical. However, it seems inappropriate to ask someone to die for the country but not allow a say in things (voting, etc).
My personal experience mirrors St. Augustine. I have had to lose substantial amounts of weight, and it would have been far easier to quit eating altogether than to moderate eating, which I have to do for the rest of my life. Once fat cells are born, they never die and are always screaming for their next meal. One who quits smoking, drugs or drinking can abstain forever, but those who have successfully lost weight must eat less than their never fat peers to maintain the same weight. Such is the lot of my previous overindulgences.
Like any other useful tool, from the first rock thrown in anger to the printing press, from the wheel to aircraft, or anything else imaginable, it can be abused, and must be mastered. Never before has a medium been so tailor-made to addict the vulnerable. Following subsidiarity, the first and most important guard should be the parents. Failing that, move up the ladder to the least intrusive level that is effective. Difficult when so many in “control” seem to be bending the ‘net to their own uses.
I disagree with mastering to enjoy something. Learning and advancing can be even more satisfying than attacking the ultimate mastery. In almost everything I’ve ever done, the journey, or the chase, was always at least as joyful as the destination.
Perhaps I was not as careful with word placement as I might have been. I should have said enjoy and master. I have several hobbies (since I retired, I have more time to indulge them). I have mastered nothing in life, but derive far more enjoyment from each pursuit I follow. Those which require no mastery are soon dropped. The movie “War Games” had an excellent example of it: “Did you play tic-tax-toe as a child?” He pointed out that one no longer plays it because there was no challenge to it. Diversions which require nothing of me are merely that.
Mastery is something which is achieved in stages, and each achievement is in itself enjoyable. Even in my profession, many were very good at what they did, but even the best would readily admit that they need to continue to learn. I guess we could then debate what it means to “master” anything.
Note that others quote Augustine and Milton. I quote movies, and occasionally, Milton-Bradley. My wife puts up with me, in part because I listen to her go on about Mansfield Park.
I know the feeling. I “mastered” a few things, such as BASIC, Visual Basic 3, and then VB6, then VB Script, JavaScript, XML, ASP, and…. Well, I never mastered ASPX 1, then 2, the 3 (Active Server Pages with ActiveX).
You might see the problem there. Every time I became proficient (or better), something new came along I had to learn. While we should all learn something new from time to time, I felt as if I was always learning, but never applying what I knew. At least not the way I wanted, because my program in the US Navy kept changing requirements, as the technologies changed.
So, I understand what you mean. Even with what I said about the journey being as much fun as reaching the destination, let’s face it, you want to enjoy the destination at some too. 🤷🏼♂️
A nugget of Chestertonian gold: If you want to be the kind of creature that can taste steak, you have to be the kind of creature that fights against gluttony. That’s the deal.
Chesterton wasn’t very good at fighting the glutinous temptations unfortunately.
I definitely have seen a lot of people mature in how they use social media over the years, so perhaps there is hope?! The unfortunate thing about baptizing a new medium is that it’ll take a lot of people to individually stand up and say NO, first of all to themselves, and that is nigh impossible without a higher understanding of life.
Slightly off-topic, but as I consider my time online, and wish I could spend much less of it there, I'm grateful for treasures like the charming painting illustrating this thoughtful post: First Steps by Marguerite Gérard, ca. 1788, Hermitage Museum. If not for the internet (hat tips to Spencer, and to Google Reverse Image Search), would I have come upon it at all, outside of an unlikely visit to St. Petersburg?
Absolutely not—and that part of the internet really is a blessing.
Indeed the net is almost a mandatory vehicle, at least if anyone wants to sift through news to find facts. Without it, we’d have to go back to trusting the talking heads in TV. And we know how reliable they are. 🙄
God made us to enjoy the world, but He also made us imperfect, as imperfect as the angels. We are both fallen—some of them; all of us. I’m pretty sure the Lord did not want automatons, but free-thinking creatures, with whom He could debate, at least for man. After all, He almost always forgives us, but not them.
That’s not to say God made a mistake in either creation. He must have needed to give some free-will to the angels for the jobs they have to do, or they would never have fallen. For us, however, there is no doubt He fully gave us free-will. The only question would be why, and I think I have a good answer, one I mentioned above.
Yes, the Augustine passage I cited has some nice observations about dependency—it’s part of our gift *not* to be able to stand entirely on our own.
Thank you for reminding us yet again that it is possible for us to live into our divine potential, that the wrestle is the point, and that we were sent now , for "such a time as this." You and your dad inspire me regularly and I thank God for your influence and goodness when I pray.❤️🙏
The issue I wrestle with when it comes to something as pervasive, infrastructural, and institutional as the internet, social media, and phone/screen use, is, I don't know what I'm wrestling with. I see the effects, I know that by the fruit you shall know them, and the fruits are bad, which makes me think this whole enterprise is bad, but what was the purpose the internet was designed for? I don't know and I don't know if we're going to ever be able to know. AI seems to be a part, if not the whole, reason the internet as a tool was created for. (If you think about the history of the computer that Alan Turing invented) What's the purpose of AI? Again, I don't know.
The internet and phones are tools. Tools are amoral. A hammer is good if it's used to pound a nail, it's bad if it's used to pound a human head. That being said, the Nazi state could also be seen as a systematic and powerful tool used to destroy the world starting with the Jews. Slavery was a kind of a systematic tool as well used to enrich the owners at the expense of human beings.
I don't know what this tool the internet system is, but by every metric it seems to be causing more harm than good. That doesn't mean we can't use it, and use it well. I love Substack, for instance, and I'm not about to abandon it. But an analogy I thought of over the weekend was of that ingenius man we heard about in Desantis' curriculum who took what he learned while being a slave and used it after slavery was abolished to further himself in his life.
Human beings are incredible. That story was a powerful one about how we can transform our surroundings, no matter how truly terrible, and turn them to something good. Is that like what is happening with the best parts of the Internet? Are Substack and good podcasts people turning something inherently destructive on its head or is the internet something else?
It's always talked about like it's pure potentiality and we put a bad form or a good form into it, making our experience of it good or bad. I just don't know, at all, what I'm looking at here. But the harm it's causing makes me feel very, very cautious about it, despite using it constantly every day. But maybe that's how mankind felt about fire the first time they saw it. Who knows?
Great point. Bowie called it “an alien invasion,” which expresses some of the disorientation and ubiquity that characterize it. I think honestly something similar must be implied in what we mean by “the printing press.” Yes it’s an object, but we’re really referring to an entire upheaval in ways of life.
“You weak minded fool! They’re using an old algorithm mind trick on you”
In my own life experience, kneeling at the foot of the Cross is the only place to discover my worth. Worth perhaps allowing me to fulfill my potential. “Lord, You have accomplished all that we have done.” Book of Isaiah
Katherine
My birthday fell on Father’s Day in 1950. June 18th
And resisting this new seduction will require a shift in society that inspires us to overcome temptations...whereas the current one applauds succumbing or "owning" our vices. It must look like a renaissance of sorts, or a return to medieval virtues as mentioned. It's just so hard to put a finger on what it will look like much less how taking our first baby steps could possibly grow to such a scale. But Enoch managed to scale it.