I’ve been a Catholic my entire life but I’ve only come to faith (still a Catholic) recently. Like many Catholics, the Bible was something the priest explained during the Sunday homily. I say all this in advance of saying that I am but a rank amateur when it comes to Biblical references. Even so your letter today reminded me of Paul’s letter to the Romans, chapters 6 and 7. He speaks of the conflict between our inner and outer selves and that we essentially are always on that roller coaster. We may be sinners but when we come back to God (maybe with our tails between our legs) we return to life stronger. A bit like Andrew’s screenwriter.
It's always felt more like a tightrope walk to me than a rollercoaster. I know what is right, I want to always do what is right but my feet consistently slip off the tightrope. To be a passive passenger on a rollercoaster speaks to having no ability to be changed by the Spirit who indwells you, by righteous living. Paul is telling us that the Law pointed out our sinfulness but that the Gentiles have just as much ability to live under grace as those raised under the Law, the Jews. Recall, Paul's audience is comprised of Jewish followers of Jesus and Gentile followers of Jesus. Because we stumble we don't always need to "return" to God with our tail between our legs. There is genuine repentance and forgiveness of sin. Not all sin (stumbles) cause an apostasy, a falling away. Right in the text, in Romans 6:10 Paul tells us Christ died once for all--for all those who trust in Him, for all sin--past, present and future.
His writings are so far above my ability to fully grasp them there is always something new to understand. I pray I shed a bit more light on these writings for you. I sense you are serious in your desire to better understand Scripture and thereby our Savior. Please let me encourage you to never stop trying to grasp the Spirit's intent. It is beyond expression when a lightbulb goes off in your heart and mind after reading a passage and your eyes are opened. Be well.
Certain people I’ve met say: “I’m spiritual, but not religious.” What does this mean? Generally it means “I want to worship God as I understand him, in my own way, and I don’t need some organized church telling me how or why.” Some of these people see themselves as Christians. Fine. But this thinking has led to thousands of denominations in the U. S., with as many takes on who God is and how to worship Him.
During the first seven or eight centuries there arose major heresies that needed to be dealt with for the sake of Christian understanding and unity. Decisions were made based on the communion of the Holy Spirit with all the leaders of the known Christian world praying for guidance. Perhaps we need to learn more about their decisions and the nature of Unity.
Honest deliberations should be welcomed and encouraged. I do, however, give credence to C S Lewis’ observation that it’s not that other religions are wrong but rather that they are incomplete. Honestly seeking truth should be given some level of respect.
I am definitely in the camp "God can use everything" to bring us closer to Him. However, I am also in camp Truth. At some point something has to be true, meaning something else is not or it's less true, and I'd prefer to know what it actually is. If the Truth sets you free, I'm all for it! I also think bad theology makes for bad living. For instance, if you think pre-destination is a thing and your actions don't matter, that frees you up to engage in a lot of unsavory behavior without compunction. People also like to say they can worship God however they like, but shouldn't we want to worship Him as He has directed us to? There are a lot of church services with no mention of "Do this in memory of me."
I believe that everyone who honestly searches for Truth will find it, but I also think many people aren't looking for Truth. There are many ways to satisfy our spiritual and communal need, including coffee and Danishes, without much actual demand on our moral conscience. If you don't like what this church teaches, go down the street! But people do seem to need certain certainties, and if it's lacking in your theology, it seems it can come out in other weird ways, IMO... only wearing skirts, smoking is a definite sin, absolute insistence on a literal 7 days of Creation...
To me practicing my religion is a joy, not only because I have had a personal experience of Christ, but also because I see religion (in my case Catholicism) as a tomato cage. It gives me a frame in which to inhabit, it upholds me where I am weak, but it gives me plenty of room to grow and produce wildly.
Ultimately though, I don't know where others are on their walk with God and so I'm not judging them. I have my hands full judging myself! I do believe God honors good will and so should we with eachother, assuming it of other Christians, and giving one another the benefit of the doubt.
I met a man who had the blessing of meeting Mother Teresa. He asked her "What is truth?" and she said "You're asking the wrong question - not what, but who? Truth is a Person."
Yes, Jesus is obviously THE Truth, so maybe I should not have capitalized my subsequent "T's". Hazards of typing in short snippets of time knowing what I'm *trying* to say in head, lol. Although, I do stand by my observation that people aren't always necessarily looking for Truth... they are often looking for community or a satisfaction of other spiritual and communal needs.
I'm really just referring to other truths like: baptism - does it matter? Does the form matter? The Trinity is not explicitly in the Bible and yet for centuries the rite of baptism has been Trinitarian. So many sects today say baptism is not actually necessary, it's just a nice ritual to symbolize your commitment. If you're Pentecostal, there's no concept of Trinity and you "receive the Holy Ghost" and a certificate, and then a "baptism" in the name of Jesus only. Again, I do think God honors good will, but at some point some things have to be objectively truer than other things, and if something is objectively more true, shouldn't that be the more desirable thing to do? That's all :)
I honestly wasn't meaning to bust your chops for using the capital T. :) I just found that story a good reminder of who Christ actually is - and it also brought to mind His conversation with Pilate. Jesus says: "Every one that is of the truth hears my voice," then Pilate asks "What is truth?" but he appears not to stick around to hear the Lord's answer. Just noting these things, related to our thoughts about truth and Truth.
As far as your particular statement: "The Trinity is not explicitly in the Bible" - I'd like to point to the baptism of the Lord - in which we hear the words of God the Father "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." And the Holy Spirit descends in the form a of a dove. I call that a manifestation of the Trinity. Also, regarding baptism - if the Lord Himself submitted to be baptized and we are followers of Him, does it not appear that baptism is a necessary sacramental act?
I agree that instance is a Trinity manifestation. I also think the Great Commission at the end of Matthew, where Jesus says to go out and baptize all nations "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit," is a pretty clear as well, both as a Trinity reference and a baptismal command. That's why I do find Pentecostalism's idea, for instance, that you get baptized "in the name of Jesus" (because Matthew seems pretty clear), and the idea that "God is One", slightly perplexing. ( If I understand it correctly, "Jesus is God, and God is Jesus, and that is it." A good friend of mine is Pentecostal, and I asked her once who she thought Jesus was praying to in the Garden of Gethsemani. She said, "Himself.")
So, it seems if you already accept certain concepts as "true" then you will see the evidence for them in Scripture. If you don't accept them, then you may see no evidence for such concepts there at all, and it's then up to interpretation. I just think at some point, one interpretation has to be correct, or more correct than others because they can't all be equally true.
We come to church as we are. True, but if we don’t leave just a little closer to God, then we’ve missed the point. But I guess that’s just another way of saying change, and change is to lose yourself as you now are.
Last week I saw the movie Cabrini. I found it incredibly inspiring and has encouraged me to reset my faith button to a higher frequency. Mother Cabrini certainly was not focused on how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. She was intensely focused on agape. As a result she built numerous hospitals, orphanages, and schools all over the world. This while being of “weak constitution“ after almost drowning as a child. Now the first American citizen to become a saint, she threw agape into the world with reckless abandon and changed it for the better at a time (in the US, at least) when Italian immigrants were despised and women were not taken seriously. What a wonderful role model!
I so want to see that movie. I have heard nothing but praise for it. It is not only a movie for Catholics but all Christians, all fence sitters, all people. I love what you said, that, "she threw agape into the world with reckless abandon...." Beautifully said. What a role model indeed.
You could find some old papyrus and write the screen play of that film on that & claim the discovery of a new Gospel. Called the “Gospel of Klavan” (no “Es”) 👍
This is most likely going to be a polarizing post. That’s fine, I can weather the stings and arrows. I find it slightly disingenuous to write a piece about certain imperfect Christians being less than and judgmental when the piece itself echoes these same sentiments. Most Christians abhor the kind of judgment you speak of but due to our imperfections and consistence in, “falling short of” humanity, is it really that strange that people, even Christians fail?
I’m familiar with the “conversion” of the OF woman you speak of but oddly enough I was witness to the majority of Christians being supportive and joyful of her conviction to turn away from this particular sinfulness and seek out Christ. There will always be those who for various reasons cast stones but I have found they are the ones less rooted on the narrow path, who seek out any example to extol their own godliness. We don’t instantaneously understand the depth of the Gospels the moment we accept Christ as our Savior. There is still a learning curve. That is why Paul speaks of feeding the new Corinthian Christians milk because they are yet unable to digest the solid food of Christian maturity (1 Corinthians 3:2).
As far as theological conversations regarding doctrine, they can be and are very important to Christians. When so many Christians are deconstructing their faith and walking away, when the Catholic Church gives license to what for centuries has been solid Christian morals and values as preached from the Word of God, when various “Christian pastors” use their pulpits to blur the lines between Christianity and culture, these issues matter very much.
Please, if you are going to speak on these issues understand them more fully and show as much grace to others as you desire in return.
I’ve been a Catholic my entire life but I’ve only come to faith (still a Catholic) recently. Like many Catholics, the Bible was something the priest explained during the Sunday homily. I say all this in advance of saying that I am but a rank amateur when it comes to Biblical references. Even so your letter today reminded me of Paul’s letter to the Romans, chapters 6 and 7. He speaks of the conflict between our inner and outer selves and that we essentially are always on that roller coaster. We may be sinners but when we come back to God (maybe with our tails between our legs) we return to life stronger. A bit like Andrew’s screenwriter.
It's always felt more like a tightrope walk to me than a rollercoaster. I know what is right, I want to always do what is right but my feet consistently slip off the tightrope. To be a passive passenger on a rollercoaster speaks to having no ability to be changed by the Spirit who indwells you, by righteous living. Paul is telling us that the Law pointed out our sinfulness but that the Gentiles have just as much ability to live under grace as those raised under the Law, the Jews. Recall, Paul's audience is comprised of Jewish followers of Jesus and Gentile followers of Jesus. Because we stumble we don't always need to "return" to God with our tail between our legs. There is genuine repentance and forgiveness of sin. Not all sin (stumbles) cause an apostasy, a falling away. Right in the text, in Romans 6:10 Paul tells us Christ died once for all--for all those who trust in Him, for all sin--past, present and future.
Good analysis and analogy. Paul packs a lot into those passages.
His writings are so far above my ability to fully grasp them there is always something new to understand. I pray I shed a bit more light on these writings for you. I sense you are serious in your desire to better understand Scripture and thereby our Savior. Please let me encourage you to never stop trying to grasp the Spirit's intent. It is beyond expression when a lightbulb goes off in your heart and mind after reading a passage and your eyes are opened. Be well.
Certain people I’ve met say: “I’m spiritual, but not religious.” What does this mean? Generally it means “I want to worship God as I understand him, in my own way, and I don’t need some organized church telling me how or why.” Some of these people see themselves as Christians. Fine. But this thinking has led to thousands of denominations in the U. S., with as many takes on who God is and how to worship Him.
During the first seven or eight centuries there arose major heresies that needed to be dealt with for the sake of Christian understanding and unity. Decisions were made based on the communion of the Holy Spirit with all the leaders of the known Christian world praying for guidance. Perhaps we need to learn more about their decisions and the nature of Unity.
Honest deliberations should be welcomed and encouraged. I do, however, give credence to C S Lewis’ observation that it’s not that other religions are wrong but rather that they are incomplete. Honestly seeking truth should be given some level of respect.
We would all do well to remember that iron sharpens iron. Honest conversations are always welcome. We can all learn from one another's experiences.
Judging the judgmental. God uses a lot of imperfect people even the judgmental? Move on.
I am definitely in the camp "God can use everything" to bring us closer to Him. However, I am also in camp Truth. At some point something has to be true, meaning something else is not or it's less true, and I'd prefer to know what it actually is. If the Truth sets you free, I'm all for it! I also think bad theology makes for bad living. For instance, if you think pre-destination is a thing and your actions don't matter, that frees you up to engage in a lot of unsavory behavior without compunction. People also like to say they can worship God however they like, but shouldn't we want to worship Him as He has directed us to? There are a lot of church services with no mention of "Do this in memory of me."
I believe that everyone who honestly searches for Truth will find it, but I also think many people aren't looking for Truth. There are many ways to satisfy our spiritual and communal need, including coffee and Danishes, without much actual demand on our moral conscience. If you don't like what this church teaches, go down the street! But people do seem to need certain certainties, and if it's lacking in your theology, it seems it can come out in other weird ways, IMO... only wearing skirts, smoking is a definite sin, absolute insistence on a literal 7 days of Creation...
To me practicing my religion is a joy, not only because I have had a personal experience of Christ, but also because I see religion (in my case Catholicism) as a tomato cage. It gives me a frame in which to inhabit, it upholds me where I am weak, but it gives me plenty of room to grow and produce wildly.
Ultimately though, I don't know where others are on their walk with God and so I'm not judging them. I have my hands full judging myself! I do believe God honors good will and so should we with eachother, assuming it of other Christians, and giving one another the benefit of the doubt.
I met a man who had the blessing of meeting Mother Teresa. He asked her "What is truth?" and she said "You're asking the wrong question - not what, but who? Truth is a Person."
Yes, Jesus is obviously THE Truth, so maybe I should not have capitalized my subsequent "T's". Hazards of typing in short snippets of time knowing what I'm *trying* to say in head, lol. Although, I do stand by my observation that people aren't always necessarily looking for Truth... they are often looking for community or a satisfaction of other spiritual and communal needs.
I'm really just referring to other truths like: baptism - does it matter? Does the form matter? The Trinity is not explicitly in the Bible and yet for centuries the rite of baptism has been Trinitarian. So many sects today say baptism is not actually necessary, it's just a nice ritual to symbolize your commitment. If you're Pentecostal, there's no concept of Trinity and you "receive the Holy Ghost" and a certificate, and then a "baptism" in the name of Jesus only. Again, I do think God honors good will, but at some point some things have to be objectively truer than other things, and if something is objectively more true, shouldn't that be the more desirable thing to do? That's all :)
Bernadette,
I honestly wasn't meaning to bust your chops for using the capital T. :) I just found that story a good reminder of who Christ actually is - and it also brought to mind His conversation with Pilate. Jesus says: "Every one that is of the truth hears my voice," then Pilate asks "What is truth?" but he appears not to stick around to hear the Lord's answer. Just noting these things, related to our thoughts about truth and Truth.
As far as your particular statement: "The Trinity is not explicitly in the Bible" - I'd like to point to the baptism of the Lord - in which we hear the words of God the Father "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." And the Holy Spirit descends in the form a of a dove. I call that a manifestation of the Trinity. Also, regarding baptism - if the Lord Himself submitted to be baptized and we are followers of Him, does it not appear that baptism is a necessary sacramental act?
Haha, okay, thanks!
I agree that instance is a Trinity manifestation. I also think the Great Commission at the end of Matthew, where Jesus says to go out and baptize all nations "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit," is a pretty clear as well, both as a Trinity reference and a baptismal command. That's why I do find Pentecostalism's idea, for instance, that you get baptized "in the name of Jesus" (because Matthew seems pretty clear), and the idea that "God is One", slightly perplexing. ( If I understand it correctly, "Jesus is God, and God is Jesus, and that is it." A good friend of mine is Pentecostal, and I asked her once who she thought Jesus was praying to in the Garden of Gethsemani. She said, "Himself.")
So, it seems if you already accept certain concepts as "true" then you will see the evidence for them in Scripture. If you don't accept them, then you may see no evidence for such concepts there at all, and it's then up to interpretation. I just think at some point, one interpretation has to be correct, or more correct than others because they can't all be equally true.
We come to church as we are. True, but if we don’t leave just a little closer to God, then we’ve missed the point. But I guess that’s just another way of saying change, and change is to lose yourself as you now are.
Surrender yourself to God and that surrender may come piece by piece.
Last week I saw the movie Cabrini. I found it incredibly inspiring and has encouraged me to reset my faith button to a higher frequency. Mother Cabrini certainly was not focused on how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. She was intensely focused on agape. As a result she built numerous hospitals, orphanages, and schools all over the world. This while being of “weak constitution“ after almost drowning as a child. Now the first American citizen to become a saint, she threw agape into the world with reckless abandon and changed it for the better at a time (in the US, at least) when Italian immigrants were despised and women were not taken seriously. What a wonderful role model!
I so want to see that movie. I have heard nothing but praise for it. It is not only a movie for Catholics but all Christians, all fence sitters, all people. I love what you said, that, "she threw agape into the world with reckless abandon...." Beautifully said. What a role model indeed.
You could find some old papyrus and write the screen play of that film on that & claim the discovery of a new Gospel. Called the “Gospel of Klavan” (no “Es”) 👍
I am hoping your words stay in my mind. The way to experience church. Thank you Also the funny story was perfect.
This is most likely going to be a polarizing post. That’s fine, I can weather the stings and arrows. I find it slightly disingenuous to write a piece about certain imperfect Christians being less than and judgmental when the piece itself echoes these same sentiments. Most Christians abhor the kind of judgment you speak of but due to our imperfections and consistence in, “falling short of” humanity, is it really that strange that people, even Christians fail?
I’m familiar with the “conversion” of the OF woman you speak of but oddly enough I was witness to the majority of Christians being supportive and joyful of her conviction to turn away from this particular sinfulness and seek out Christ. There will always be those who for various reasons cast stones but I have found they are the ones less rooted on the narrow path, who seek out any example to extol their own godliness. We don’t instantaneously understand the depth of the Gospels the moment we accept Christ as our Savior. There is still a learning curve. That is why Paul speaks of feeding the new Corinthian Christians milk because they are yet unable to digest the solid food of Christian maturity (1 Corinthians 3:2).
As far as theological conversations regarding doctrine, they can be and are very important to Christians. When so many Christians are deconstructing their faith and walking away, when the Catholic Church gives license to what for centuries has been solid Christian morals and values as preached from the Word of God, when various “Christian pastors” use their pulpits to blur the lines between Christianity and culture, these issues matter very much.
Please, if you are going to speak on these issues understand them more fully and show as much grace to others as you desire in return.
I saw the comments from Andrew as satirical.
Sorry, I did not.
Therein lies the problem with short form discussions. I could be wrong. In truth, both of us could be under a misapprehension.
That's always a possibility. I stand by my response. Satire or not it needed to be said.