This conversation just gets better and better. I've been uncomfortable with the whole 'Trad' movement without being able to fully articulate why. Of course I think it's great to be a traditional mom and wife, but after reading this letter I begin to think it is the exaltation of the role over the one who created us for it. I really am coming to understand that our most important role is child of God and to spend time deep in His presence and word and to dwell in the community of believers leads us to who we truly are to be in the time we live. Thanks for everything both of you write!
So true! God has different paths for us all. Whenever we make a decision, if we talk to God and truly listen, we will find the answer that will best serve His will.
My wife likes to say that the present age of wokeness and selfish ideologies is a variant of something as old as time; the ability to say “Oh, that explains it all…I don’t have to think any more!”. (Yes, Andrew isn’t the only one who married “up”). By surrendering to whatever feelings and pieties du jour appear, one doesn’t have to waste time with all that character formation, self examination and attempting to improve by practicing Jesus’ admonition to “Love God…and love your neighbor as yourself”. In other words, simply emptying oneself and filling it with God and agape love is hard work and requires a lifetime of reflection, sacrifice (of self and desires) and constant self-awareness, not to satisfy each desire, but to decide whether you are on the right path, or whether you are following that road made by the Good Intentions Paving Company and asking “Where are we going and why am I in this hand basket?”
Frederica (sp?) Matthews-Green stated that prior to her conversion, she came to realize that no matter how much she self-actualized and empowered herself, that her god would never be any taller than 5’2”. All of this running away from Truth and attempting to make “your truth” is taking that fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and devouring it, turning it into a pie and offering it to others. Down that path is the moral relativism that ruins and condemns and replaces the Truth with “my truth”.
Excellent letters particularly the last few days, both father and son, (no relation).
Funny, I commented on the last letter, before I read this comment and said the same thing - without the excellent references to other truth tellers. I've always thought if you want to grow, you need to be surrounded by those with greater knowledge. I found the perfect place.
J.S. Mill's "On Liberty" points to a problem with social leveling. Democratization erodes traditional hierarchies, so it might seem an unalloyed advantage in the freedom of the individual from social conformity. But in fact, it tends toward an unstructured mob, even more susceptible to politics, and specifically to the power of the state, he said.
We can extend his argument beyond the state, to partisanship, to mass marketing, and to the demagoguery of social-but-non-governmental entities: Identity politics.
We can't solve the perennial tension between the individual and society (in whatever form), by deciding in favor of one or the other. We need a third party, an arbiter. We need a theology of calling.
But "calling" today is often merely some inward, and often idiosyncratic, impulse. Unless there is a Caller. And there is one.
William Perkins timeless essay "A Treatise of the Vocations" gives us this: "A vocation or calling is a certain kind of life, ordained and imposed on man by God, for the common good." Perkins is really just commenting on St. Paul's directives in 1 Corinthians 7:17-24.
Now we still have to work this out in a community having a shared conception of the good life under God. But it is the solution. This is how we live in a free-and-also-virtuous society.
I think you touched on something that is essential to what I think the right gets wrong and how a lot of division is sown between even the moderates of both sides. Tradlife is indeed not the way to go.
The problem is that while all of the left’s proposed solutions are horrible and make things worse, they are still noticing real problems.
From the french revolution and enlightenment to feminism and socialism the left fails at implementing any sort of viable solutions and the right rightly calls then out on it. But in the process they neglect to recognize often that the immature cries for change were a reaction to a geniune ill. The french nobility and clergy were taxing the population into starvation and treating them like animals, the enlightenment was a reaction to a clergy that had become corrupt and had begun to use ritual as a means for accumulating wealth while foregoing morality, women DID indeed have fewer rights and sometimes suffered horrible abuse in an industrial and post industrial era and the industrial revolution had initially left many working in dreadful pitiable conditions while stripping them of the dignity of their previous agrarian lifestyle.
The critique of the calls for revolution should not ignore the festering wounds that make populations willing to revolt. Going back to old problems to avoid the new catastrophic “solutions” is not the answer.
Spencer, “Authenticity has become the one ring of power” absolutely glows. Authenticity up against integrity and reality is similar to unacceptable (which makes me feel like gagging) up against ‘just plain’ wrong.
So could wokeness also be conceived of as the feverish clash of the burning urge for authenticity (morphing oneself into one’s own god-like image) reeling head on into Coleridge’s idea that we lack sufficient resources to light up the world? I’ve often felt the woke know deep down how impoverished their soul is while frantically vocalizing how very good they are in hopes that neither they nor anyone else will notice their very pathos.
I’m probably deviating from the intention of this article but seeing trad life made me think of the new “trad wife” trend that’s been popular lately. It reminds me of when God said to Saul that He demands not sacrifices but obedience. Does it matter if a wife is a full time homemaker as opposed to having a career? Obviously a wife won’t be able to do all of the domestic duties if she works, but I feel that most men would say that their top priority in a partner today would be faithfulness. But I suppose Hamlet might agree with me that there is a lot of vanity in all of these trends, whether it’s woke or Red Pilled.
There are a few reasons for the trend. First, it gets clicks and followers. But also, as a married mother who worked in computers in the 90s, part time with kids, and am back to computers, I think we sometimes want to justify our decisions. When I quit my job in software sales, at first I felt like I had to say, well I volunteer at school, but I do have a degree in computer science. But I realized there were great mothers who worked full time, and stay at home moms that were not involed with their kids. When I judge myself against Jesus and the bible, with the help of my brothers and sisters in Christ, I know I am on the right path, no matter what the current trend is.
So many good things to think about in this, I've been mulling it over all yesterday and this morning! I have been a SAHM for over 20 years now, but I would hardly consider myself a "Trad Wife" even though our household roles tend quite traditional. It's not even an that idea that attracts me, though, because I generally eschew anything that overemphasizes outward appearances or style. But I do have sympathy for those who are looking for clear markers or boundaries to give a certain order, or even meaning, to their lives. Hyper individualism does lead to hell, as Satan discovered.
As a side note, I wish I appreciated Carl Trueman more. When I read some of his First Things posts it seems to me he's not able to separate his sensibilities from his "conscience" very well at times. It colors my whole subsequent reading of him, and I'm trying to compartmentalize that a bit to give him more of a fair go.
This conversation just gets better and better. I've been uncomfortable with the whole 'Trad' movement without being able to fully articulate why. Of course I think it's great to be a traditional mom and wife, but after reading this letter I begin to think it is the exaltation of the role over the one who created us for it. I really am coming to understand that our most important role is child of God and to spend time deep in His presence and word and to dwell in the community of believers leads us to who we truly are to be in the time we live. Thanks for everything both of you write!
So true! God has different paths for us all. Whenever we make a decision, if we talk to God and truly listen, we will find the answer that will best serve His will.
My wife likes to say that the present age of wokeness and selfish ideologies is a variant of something as old as time; the ability to say “Oh, that explains it all…I don’t have to think any more!”. (Yes, Andrew isn’t the only one who married “up”). By surrendering to whatever feelings and pieties du jour appear, one doesn’t have to waste time with all that character formation, self examination and attempting to improve by practicing Jesus’ admonition to “Love God…and love your neighbor as yourself”. In other words, simply emptying oneself and filling it with God and agape love is hard work and requires a lifetime of reflection, sacrifice (of self and desires) and constant self-awareness, not to satisfy each desire, but to decide whether you are on the right path, or whether you are following that road made by the Good Intentions Paving Company and asking “Where are we going and why am I in this hand basket?”
Frederica (sp?) Matthews-Green stated that prior to her conversion, she came to realize that no matter how much she self-actualized and empowered herself, that her god would never be any taller than 5’2”. All of this running away from Truth and attempting to make “your truth” is taking that fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and devouring it, turning it into a pie and offering it to others. Down that path is the moral relativism that ruins and condemns and replaces the Truth with “my truth”.
Excellent letters particularly the last few days, both father and son, (no relation).
Funny, I commented on the last letter, before I read this comment and said the same thing - without the excellent references to other truth tellers. I've always thought if you want to grow, you need to be surrounded by those with greater knowledge. I found the perfect place.
J.S. Mill's "On Liberty" points to a problem with social leveling. Democratization erodes traditional hierarchies, so it might seem an unalloyed advantage in the freedom of the individual from social conformity. But in fact, it tends toward an unstructured mob, even more susceptible to politics, and specifically to the power of the state, he said.
We can extend his argument beyond the state, to partisanship, to mass marketing, and to the demagoguery of social-but-non-governmental entities: Identity politics.
We can't solve the perennial tension between the individual and society (in whatever form), by deciding in favor of one or the other. We need a third party, an arbiter. We need a theology of calling.
But "calling" today is often merely some inward, and often idiosyncratic, impulse. Unless there is a Caller. And there is one.
William Perkins timeless essay "A Treatise of the Vocations" gives us this: "A vocation or calling is a certain kind of life, ordained and imposed on man by God, for the common good." Perkins is really just commenting on St. Paul's directives in 1 Corinthians 7:17-24.
Now we still have to work this out in a community having a shared conception of the good life under God. But it is the solution. This is how we live in a free-and-also-virtuous society.
I think you touched on something that is essential to what I think the right gets wrong and how a lot of division is sown between even the moderates of both sides. Tradlife is indeed not the way to go.
The problem is that while all of the left’s proposed solutions are horrible and make things worse, they are still noticing real problems.
From the french revolution and enlightenment to feminism and socialism the left fails at implementing any sort of viable solutions and the right rightly calls then out on it. But in the process they neglect to recognize often that the immature cries for change were a reaction to a geniune ill. The french nobility and clergy were taxing the population into starvation and treating them like animals, the enlightenment was a reaction to a clergy that had become corrupt and had begun to use ritual as a means for accumulating wealth while foregoing morality, women DID indeed have fewer rights and sometimes suffered horrible abuse in an industrial and post industrial era and the industrial revolution had initially left many working in dreadful pitiable conditions while stripping them of the dignity of their previous agrarian lifestyle.
The critique of the calls for revolution should not ignore the festering wounds that make populations willing to revolt. Going back to old problems to avoid the new catastrophic “solutions” is not the answer.
Spencer, “Authenticity has become the one ring of power” absolutely glows. Authenticity up against integrity and reality is similar to unacceptable (which makes me feel like gagging) up against ‘just plain’ wrong.
Katherine
So could wokeness also be conceived of as the feverish clash of the burning urge for authenticity (morphing oneself into one’s own god-like image) reeling head on into Coleridge’s idea that we lack sufficient resources to light up the world? I’ve often felt the woke know deep down how impoverished their soul is while frantically vocalizing how very good they are in hopes that neither they nor anyone else will notice their very pathos.
Woke. The paint by numbers life. Never thought about it like that before. Well done Spelungy or whatever your name is this week.
Beautiful.
These essays are stirring my mind, soul and spirit and giving me inspirational "cud" to chew on through the day. Thank you, gentlemen.
I’m probably deviating from the intention of this article but seeing trad life made me think of the new “trad wife” trend that’s been popular lately. It reminds me of when God said to Saul that He demands not sacrifices but obedience. Does it matter if a wife is a full time homemaker as opposed to having a career? Obviously a wife won’t be able to do all of the domestic duties if she works, but I feel that most men would say that their top priority in a partner today would be faithfulness. But I suppose Hamlet might agree with me that there is a lot of vanity in all of these trends, whether it’s woke or Red Pilled.
There are a few reasons for the trend. First, it gets clicks and followers. But also, as a married mother who worked in computers in the 90s, part time with kids, and am back to computers, I think we sometimes want to justify our decisions. When I quit my job in software sales, at first I felt like I had to say, well I volunteer at school, but I do have a degree in computer science. But I realized there were great mothers who worked full time, and stay at home moms that were not involed with their kids. When I judge myself against Jesus and the bible, with the help of my brothers and sisters in Christ, I know I am on the right path, no matter what the current trend is.
So many good things to think about in this, I've been mulling it over all yesterday and this morning! I have been a SAHM for over 20 years now, but I would hardly consider myself a "Trad Wife" even though our household roles tend quite traditional. It's not even an that idea that attracts me, though, because I generally eschew anything that overemphasizes outward appearances or style. But I do have sympathy for those who are looking for clear markers or boundaries to give a certain order, or even meaning, to their lives. Hyper individualism does lead to hell, as Satan discovered.
As a side note, I wish I appreciated Carl Trueman more. When I read some of his First Things posts it seems to me he's not able to separate his sensibilities from his "conscience" very well at times. It colors my whole subsequent reading of him, and I'm trying to compartmentalize that a bit to give him more of a fair go.
Sorry, didn’t see your post, but glad there are like-minded out there. Not surprising in this stack.